One is a self-confessed Nicola Sturgeon fan girl; the other thinks the SNP turned into a personality cult around her. Were they more aligned on how to tackle drug deaths?
Sam WollastonThu 17 Oct 2024 12.30 BSTShare
Ian, 43, Edinburgh
Occupation Customer success manager for a tech firmVoting record Labour but not enthusiastically under Keir Starmer
Amuse bouche Ian used to be the music editor of a fashion magazine despite having no interest in fashion, then of a rollerblading magazine despite never having worn rollerblades in his life
Monica, 65, Edinburgh
Occupation Tour guide and funeral celebrantVoting record Labour until “the whole Gulf war nonsense”. Now SNP
Amuse bouche In the 70s, Debbie Harry walked into the bar where Monica worked and asked for a gin and tonic. Monica asked if she wanted diet tonic, “and she just looked at me with this withering look – I gave her full fat”
For startersMonica I was a bit taken aback because I ordered a gin and tonic and he was on sparkling water. But he explained that they have a baby and take it in turns at night, so he had to stay sober. It didn’t matter because he was delightful.
Ian We’re both vegetarians. Monica is warm, friendly and really easy to get along with. We hit it off straight away.
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The big beefDining across the divide: ‘I’m not 100% sure I would be against corporal punishment in schools’Read moreMonica I was intending to vote no when the Scottish independence referendum was announced. It was about solidarity and internationalism, and also a wee bit of Scottish cringe – it’s all going to be about kilts and tartan. But I became a very ardent yes. The arguments won me over, and then I despised the Better Together campaign, telling us that we were too small and too poor and we couldn’t look after ourselves.
Ian I too voted yes. Coming from a strong Scottish Labour background, I’d been sceptical about independence, but was persuaded by how inspiring and radical the movement was. The point of divergence for Monica and I was what happened after 2014.
Monica Over the past 10 years, I have despaired of the Westminster government – over Covid, trashing the economy in one weekend, the cruelty of the benefit cuts and the two-child benefit cap. We have our problems in Scotland – the SNP isn’t radical – but there’s more of a belief that society still exists. I’m now even more yes than when I voted. If there was another referendum tomorrow, I would be out knocking on doors, 20 hours a day.
Ian If there was another referendum tomorrow, I would vote no. Ten years ago, there was this incredible pluralistic, democratic, participatory movement for an independent Scotland. There’s nothing left of it. I blame the SNP, who took all the energy and imagination of that movement and channelled it into almost a kind of personality cult about Nicola Sturgeon. I found that incredibly dispiriting.
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Sharing plateMonica I’m from Dundee, which has one of the highest death rates from drugs in Europe. Decriminalisation might actually change that. Scooping up the young guys dealing on the streets doesn’t help. If you’re criminalising the ones making millions of pounds, fair enough.
Ian If you live in one of the poorest parts of Scotland, you are 15 times more likely to die a drugs-related death than if you live in one of the richest parts. It’s clear to me those are not drugs deaths, but poverty deaths. I agree with Monica, who spoke for a more humane and rational approach, treating drugs as a public health issue rather than a criminal justice issue.
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For aftersMonica I’m a Nicola Sturgeon fan girl. I still have a lot of respect for her, because of her leadership skills during Covid. We’ve not got independence, and there have been missteps, but look at some of the things the SNP have achieved: they mitigated the effects of the bedroom tax, we have free prescriptions, people get baby boxes …
Ian The SNP went from being a small party to being a very big party. And I don’t think it had the kind of internal governance and democracy you need to make it work effectively. The party drifted away from its principles.
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TakeawaysMonica I was expecting someone wearing salmon pink corduroy trousers, telling me we can’t manage it in Scotland, but he was coming from another angle. Not that he convinced me, but I respect what he was saying.
Ian The cliche about the 2014 referendum was that strangers would talk about monetary policy on the bus – it was a very exciting time. I felt a bit of that spirit of 2014 having dinner with Monica. Her faith and her optimism were inspiring.
View image in fullscreenAdditional reporting: Kitty DrakeIan and Monica ate at Tapa in Edinburgh. Want to meet someone from across the divide? Find out how to take part
